On 21 April 2016 Indonesian president Joko Widodo visited the Netherlands. I was invited by Radio 1 to talk about project The People Behind the Seawall. Radio host Chris Kijne asks me about the people, waterissues, the role of the Dutch government. Guided by the pictures of Sarmini sitting in her flooded living room and Lukman raising his house to prevent it from sinking in the sea, I tell about living with the daily threat of water. Click here to listen to broadcast.